Wayne, I'm not taking sides here, and we know Steve's intent is to publicly debate people who question his work, however nowhere does it specifically state that it's a requirement in order to collect the money for the fluvoximine data. Anthony is posting legitimate studies and is meeting Steve's terms, so what gives?
I just moderate comments but I can speak to you from my own personal view as somebody who READS Steve Kirsch. These thoughts are my own. Anybody can gain this same perspective by READING.
Steve Kirsch is very busy working on behalf of the vaccine injured, the censored and the oppressed. Also, his substack is extremely popular with hundreds of thousands of subscribers. The Kirsch hater substacks have only a few comments, so they see all of them right away. Steve Kirsch does not. His email and texts never stops coming in and his phone doesn't stop ringing. As a comment moderator, I see many people demanding Steve Kirsch's attention. Some have a point, some don't. None of us have to sift through all that just to have a normal conversation but popular celebrities and executives do.
Just recently, Vaccine Safety Research Foundation (VSRF,) RePlatform and DefeatTheMandates put together Covid Litigation Conference II where many of the top law firms and legal experts fighting mandates and Deep State gathered to fight the evil upon us. Sasha Latypova and Dr. Mary Bowden were among the experts. Robert Barnes and Jeff Childers were just two of the lawyers. Super-Lawyer Tricia Lindsay spoke on the Constitution and it was played on VSRF Thursday Night. Astounding speech! Everyone should see it. No anti-vax Kirsch hater has accomplished anything like this.
Another example is right after CLC II was RePlatform Conference where an alternate economy is forming. For instance, a freedom based bank was there to explain how people can keep their money when the government tries to seize it. An amazing outfit helps people degoogle their phone and block electronic government intrusion. This takes a lot of work and money. Grifter? Anybody who can READ knows that is a lie. My point here is that Kirsch is very busy.
Anybody can READ his substack, VSRF and other places to list a huge amount of things Kirsch and his teams have done to help humanity and fight our current situation. I'm not going to READ them all out for the haters, but I gave just a few examples.
Based on READING his columns and the public responses I think Mr. Kirsch would love to discuss SSRIs with Mr. Colpo and had not seen his proposal till recently. As you indicated in an earlier comment, his challenges are based on debate which you and I know because we READ. I'm sure he assumed that was Colpo's proposal.
Mr. Colpo provides a link to show that a debate was not specifically mentioned. Very interesting and he could have a gotcha point there.
What puzzles me is that instead of having a civilized discussion or giving Mr. Kirsch some time to analyze the extensive studies and information Mr. Colpo referenced he is engaging in a childish attack. It makes me wonder if he doesn't want the money, as if he is trying to act like a maniac so he won't get it, then have an excuse for more attacks.
That doesn't make any sense to me and I don't say that's what he's doing. I'm just trying to think of a reason for the attacks. I don't think that strategy would work or that the attacks will help him in any way so it's puzzling. I don't know what Steve Kirsch thinks about them but he doesn't attack any anti-vaxxer like this.
My only action or responsibility in all this is to moderate comments so I would ask people to just try to behave like a civilized person when posting comments on Steve Kirsch Newsletter even if your emotions and passion are high. We try to avoid banning, commenters are normally not banned for content but for spamming or trolling.
You present a very one-sided, romanticized view of this regrettable character. For a man allegedly so busy saving the world, Kirsch sure has plenty of time to engage in childish tomfoolery like self-aggrandizing challenges and dopey surveys that prove nothing.
You accuse me of "engaging in a childish attack."
No, I'm pointing out that Kirsch is not only wrong on fluvoxamine, but his gushing over this drug is dangerous. I have every right to point this out, even if it does hurt the feelings of his sycophantic moderators.
You do realize you're talking about my response to a childish, egocentric buffoon that loudly issues challenges like a drunk in a bar room, right?
"instead of having a civilized discussion or giving Mr. Kirsch some time to analyze the extensive studies and information"
A civilized discussion with ... Kirsch??
The guy who shouts down the phone at reporters and sends them emails in ALL-CAPS?
Lol.
As detailed by me, and ignored by you, I tried.
But I was ignored by Kirsch. Which seems to be his routine response to people who can actually dispute what he claims.
"It makes me wonder if he doesn't want the money"
Oh, I want the money alright. It was promised to the first person who could meet his challenge. That's me. I was the first person to meet his challenge, so it's owed to me.
As I explained to Kirsch when I notified him of my response to his challenge, I want to give the money to a loved one who, through no fault of their own, suffers a painful condition called regional complex pain syndrome. They deserve that money - Kirsch doesn't. He's a self-aggrandizing carnival barker that loudly issues challenges, usually framed in a manner that makes them impossible to meet. He slipped up on the fluvoxamine challenge, I'm guessing due to a combination of hubris and scientific ineptitude.
Your arrogant hero thought he could slime his way out of giving me the money by having a debate first.
But there was never any mention of a debate in his fluvoxamine challenge - he asked for "hard evidence", which I have supplied.
Having pointed that out to him, he has now gone silent and is ignoring me.
This is your selfless hero? A coward who boosts his own ego with loud challenges, then ignores people who irrefutably meet those challenges?
The man is showing himself to be a dishonest liar. He is acting in bad faith.
"I'm just trying to think of a reason for the attacks. "
If you can't work out the motive behind my so-called "attacks" on the dishonest, evasive Kirsch after all I've written on this topic over the last week, you're thinking apparatus is clearly in need of a major overhaul.
This isn't rocket science, Wayne. It's actually quite simple:
-Kirsch made a challenge;
-I successfully met that challenge, fair and square;
-Kirsch is now refusing to give me the money he publicly promised to the winner.
This is why he now finds himself the subject of memes belittling his lack of integrity. Because he has none.
Alerting people to the fact that Kirsch is recklessly recommending a drug documented to cause all manner of psychiatric disturbances, including a heightened risk of completed suicide, is not "serious" enough for you?
I'm jumping in here briefly as a "character witness" of sorts, in some hope that you can convey to Steve that Anthony is a serious, competent gentleman and in no way has nefarious motives. I blog at FreeTheAnimal.com (20 years, 5,500 posts, 5 million words) and I have a new Newsletter, The Swagger (swagger.freetheanimal.com).
I am generally a fan of Steve and have blogged about him many times (I did 99 posts during the Covidiocy). I appreciate much of his work on the vaccine injuries and the excess mortality. I must admit, however, that I have eye-rolled MANY times over the "challenges" he issues as, at least on the surface, they seem nothing but publicity and not serious efforts to pay people to put a lot of attention into his claims. Has he ever taken the L and paid up one single time? Not that I'm aware of. Why? Because he designs the challenges as unwinnable. He THOUGHT he designed this challenge in question that way. He effed up, as any honest assessment of Anthony's thorough work will show.
If you're familiar with Anthony's other work (anthonycolpo.com, The Great Cholesterol Con, The Fat Loss Bible and most recently, Not So Fast) you'll know that...
1. He is extremely thorough
2. He doesn't cherry pick studies (ever)
3. He does not allow any diversions from the clear and present point of the matter
It is #3 that is of issue here. Because there were two acceptable responses, by Steve:
1. Take the L and pay up
2. Respond in an equally thorough and serious manner as to why he disagrees with Anthony's challenge response
It's that he did neither that is the only issue here. Anthony is not giving a planck's length. And he's not because he's sticking to the points.
... So anyway, I've known Anthony for a decade or so online (I had previously been a critic, but determined for myself that he was right). We became occasional online correspondents and more recently, member's of each-other's paid blogs.
A couple of months ago, Anthony left Australia to come live in Thailand, where I've been an expat for 4 years. He took up temporary residence in my same condo complex while awaiting the processing of his long-stay visa. During that 5 weeks, we spent hours each day together, mostly in the activities of long walks and working out at the gym. And also the common fun stuff of getting together for outings for meals and such.
First of all, Anthony is a very polite gentleman who treats others, particularly strangers, with admirable respect. He's a cool head, not a hot head at all.
He's an absolute pleasure to be around and spend time with.
People get confused about this because of his professional demeanor online. And I mean professional. And one aspect of that professionalism is that he gets to the heart of matters and stays right there and when he gets back the common, "aw, c'mon, man, let's schmooze a little and work this out, save face and all that..." he resists, and he resists hard because he knows exactly what is being sought.
At this point I have only skimmed Anthony's answer to Steve's challenge and subsequent posts, so I can't say for sure yet what my judgment is. But I can say that I have gone through tons of Anthony's stuff in the past (I looked at every study he cited in The Fat Loss Bible) and I have never found a single error, much less an intentional misleading.
Not one.
I am of the impression and expect to confirm that in my judgment, Steve's goose is cooked here and he should just take the L.
And hey, now that Anthony has revealed what he plans to do with the money, Steve has the ideal face-saving gesture available to him right there and we all witness a win-win-win.
When you say you like to help people accomplish their goals, that evidently doesn't include the goal of seeking greater transparency as to the activities of the so-called "Vaccine Safety Research Foundation":
I submit that you and Steve, probably others, have spent more time embroiled in what is now a controversy than had you, at the outset...
1. Wait a sec, this challenge response looks serious, let's dig in carefully because integrity is at stake
2. Made a determination to pay, dispute Anthony's work thoroughly, or ask honest, clarifying questions in the spirit of making a solid determination and executing
What you, collectively speaking, did instead was obviously to dismiss it out of hand as "impossible," because "cocksure" (why we do these challenges in the first place).
What's obvious to me, at even just a cursory glance, is that you have yet to thoroughly review Anthony's challenge and instead have done a bunch of hand-waving diversion and beside the point stuff.
Look, it's simple: Steve should say either "oops, you got me," and "now who's your person you want this money transferred to?"... OR issue a thorough rebuttal to Anthony's work that makes it clear and obvious that you reviewed it honestly.
I have my Occam's Razor-like suspicions as to why this has not been done and the case settled, once and for all.
Glad to know all this. I think the FDA should start doing REAL drug investigations instead of allowing drug makers to approve them on their own. It's like medical students reading their own research papers/grants and grading them themselves.
The FDA gets busted and reorganizes (reinvents) itself and promises to do better quite often. Unfortunately, the agency just gets worse and worse, the public gets harmed & ripped off more and more, because the reorganizations are organized the foxes, not the roosters.
Yes, just like all the other lettered agencies. Romney's niece just got a new job, working for NBC (or Chiden's News Network). So we know the gov't does this too.
I think we have to consider he may be ideologically captured. As in, the sort of God complex delusional guff that weak-minded people with power and wealth and lacking the wherewithal to avoid taking demonstrably dangerous experimental injections on command who are also in secret clubs, end up succumbing to. “The Urge to Save Humanity is Almost Always Only a False-Face for the Urge to Rule It” attributed to H L Mencken.
Steve has vested interest in not admitting, a version of Upton Sinclair’s “ It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
when he started charging people a subscription to read his “weight loss plan” and then was spruking his crypto platform and investment tips i knew something was well up!
then when he started posting rambling rants like malone i knew he was not what he purported to be and i lost faith and respect in the man (if you can call him that)
I wonder what happens to these kinds of ppl that makes them do such evil stuff. Something happens during childhood plus they're natural psychopaths then they meet the wrong ppl and get the wrong mentor
I am proud to say I was blocked by the $Grifter$ for posting your links calling him out..
I'm proud of you too :) He's sure showing his true colours...
me too...he's such a clueless coward... good on you!
No, plenty of people have posted the links and not been banned. You specifically were temporarily banned for spamming.
Wayne, I'm not taking sides here, and we know Steve's intent is to publicly debate people who question his work, however nowhere does it specifically state that it's a requirement in order to collect the money for the fluvoximine data. Anthony is posting legitimate studies and is meeting Steve's terms, so what gives?
I just moderate comments but I can speak to you from my own personal view as somebody who READS Steve Kirsch. These thoughts are my own. Anybody can gain this same perspective by READING.
Steve Kirsch is very busy working on behalf of the vaccine injured, the censored and the oppressed. Also, his substack is extremely popular with hundreds of thousands of subscribers. The Kirsch hater substacks have only a few comments, so they see all of them right away. Steve Kirsch does not. His email and texts never stops coming in and his phone doesn't stop ringing. As a comment moderator, I see many people demanding Steve Kirsch's attention. Some have a point, some don't. None of us have to sift through all that just to have a normal conversation but popular celebrities and executives do.
Just recently, Vaccine Safety Research Foundation (VSRF,) RePlatform and DefeatTheMandates put together Covid Litigation Conference II where many of the top law firms and legal experts fighting mandates and Deep State gathered to fight the evil upon us. Sasha Latypova and Dr. Mary Bowden were among the experts. Robert Barnes and Jeff Childers were just two of the lawyers. Super-Lawyer Tricia Lindsay spoke on the Constitution and it was played on VSRF Thursday Night. Astounding speech! Everyone should see it. No anti-vax Kirsch hater has accomplished anything like this.
Another example is right after CLC II was RePlatform Conference where an alternate economy is forming. For instance, a freedom based bank was there to explain how people can keep their money when the government tries to seize it. An amazing outfit helps people degoogle their phone and block electronic government intrusion. This takes a lot of work and money. Grifter? Anybody who can READ knows that is a lie. My point here is that Kirsch is very busy.
Anybody can READ his substack, VSRF and other places to list a huge amount of things Kirsch and his teams have done to help humanity and fight our current situation. I'm not going to READ them all out for the haters, but I gave just a few examples.
Based on READING his columns and the public responses I think Mr. Kirsch would love to discuss SSRIs with Mr. Colpo and had not seen his proposal till recently. As you indicated in an earlier comment, his challenges are based on debate which you and I know because we READ. I'm sure he assumed that was Colpo's proposal.
Mr. Colpo provides a link to show that a debate was not specifically mentioned. Very interesting and he could have a gotcha point there.
What puzzles me is that instead of having a civilized discussion or giving Mr. Kirsch some time to analyze the extensive studies and information Mr. Colpo referenced he is engaging in a childish attack. It makes me wonder if he doesn't want the money, as if he is trying to act like a maniac so he won't get it, then have an excuse for more attacks.
That doesn't make any sense to me and I don't say that's what he's doing. I'm just trying to think of a reason for the attacks. I don't think that strategy would work or that the attacks will help him in any way so it's puzzling. I don't know what Steve Kirsch thinks about them but he doesn't attack any anti-vaxxer like this.
My only action or responsibility in all this is to moderate comments so I would ask people to just try to behave like a civilized person when posting comments on Steve Kirsch Newsletter even if your emotions and passion are high. We try to avoid banning, commenters are normally not banned for content but for spamming or trolling.
You present a very one-sided, romanticized view of this regrettable character. For a man allegedly so busy saving the world, Kirsch sure has plenty of time to engage in childish tomfoolery like self-aggrandizing challenges and dopey surveys that prove nothing.
You accuse me of "engaging in a childish attack."
No, I'm pointing out that Kirsch is not only wrong on fluvoxamine, but his gushing over this drug is dangerous. I have every right to point this out, even if it does hurt the feelings of his sycophantic moderators.
You do realize you're talking about my response to a childish, egocentric buffoon that loudly issues challenges like a drunk in a bar room, right?
"instead of having a civilized discussion or giving Mr. Kirsch some time to analyze the extensive studies and information"
A civilized discussion with ... Kirsch??
The guy who shouts down the phone at reporters and sends them emails in ALL-CAPS?
Lol.
As detailed by me, and ignored by you, I tried.
But I was ignored by Kirsch. Which seems to be his routine response to people who can actually dispute what he claims.
"It makes me wonder if he doesn't want the money"
Oh, I want the money alright. It was promised to the first person who could meet his challenge. That's me. I was the first person to meet his challenge, so it's owed to me.
As I explained to Kirsch when I notified him of my response to his challenge, I want to give the money to a loved one who, through no fault of their own, suffers a painful condition called regional complex pain syndrome. They deserve that money - Kirsch doesn't. He's a self-aggrandizing carnival barker that loudly issues challenges, usually framed in a manner that makes them impossible to meet. He slipped up on the fluvoxamine challenge, I'm guessing due to a combination of hubris and scientific ineptitude.
Your arrogant hero thought he could slime his way out of giving me the money by having a debate first.
But there was never any mention of a debate in his fluvoxamine challenge - he asked for "hard evidence", which I have supplied.
Having pointed that out to him, he has now gone silent and is ignoring me.
This is your selfless hero? A coward who boosts his own ego with loud challenges, then ignores people who irrefutably meet those challenges?
The man is showing himself to be a dishonest liar. He is acting in bad faith.
"I'm just trying to think of a reason for the attacks. "
If you can't work out the motive behind my so-called "attacks" on the dishonest, evasive Kirsch after all I've written on this topic over the last week, you're thinking apparatus is clearly in need of a major overhaul.
This isn't rocket science, Wayne. It's actually quite simple:
-Kirsch made a challenge;
-I successfully met that challenge, fair and square;
-Kirsch is now refusing to give me the money he publicly promised to the winner.
This is why he now finds himself the subject of memes belittling his lack of integrity. Because he has none.
You seem like a serious guy except for this one subject but it takes all kinds to make a world. Much respect for your other work.
"except for this one subject"
Alerting people to the fact that Kirsch is recklessly recommending a drug documented to cause all manner of psychiatric disturbances, including a heightened risk of completed suicide, is not "serious" enough for you?
Wayne,
I'm jumping in here briefly as a "character witness" of sorts, in some hope that you can convey to Steve that Anthony is a serious, competent gentleman and in no way has nefarious motives. I blog at FreeTheAnimal.com (20 years, 5,500 posts, 5 million words) and I have a new Newsletter, The Swagger (swagger.freetheanimal.com).
I am generally a fan of Steve and have blogged about him many times (I did 99 posts during the Covidiocy). I appreciate much of his work on the vaccine injuries and the excess mortality. I must admit, however, that I have eye-rolled MANY times over the "challenges" he issues as, at least on the surface, they seem nothing but publicity and not serious efforts to pay people to put a lot of attention into his claims. Has he ever taken the L and paid up one single time? Not that I'm aware of. Why? Because he designs the challenges as unwinnable. He THOUGHT he designed this challenge in question that way. He effed up, as any honest assessment of Anthony's thorough work will show.
If you're familiar with Anthony's other work (anthonycolpo.com, The Great Cholesterol Con, The Fat Loss Bible and most recently, Not So Fast) you'll know that...
1. He is extremely thorough
2. He doesn't cherry pick studies (ever)
3. He does not allow any diversions from the clear and present point of the matter
It is #3 that is of issue here. Because there were two acceptable responses, by Steve:
1. Take the L and pay up
2. Respond in an equally thorough and serious manner as to why he disagrees with Anthony's challenge response
It's that he did neither that is the only issue here. Anthony is not giving a planck's length. And he's not because he's sticking to the points.
... So anyway, I've known Anthony for a decade or so online (I had previously been a critic, but determined for myself that he was right). We became occasional online correspondents and more recently, member's of each-other's paid blogs.
A couple of months ago, Anthony left Australia to come live in Thailand, where I've been an expat for 4 years. He took up temporary residence in my same condo complex while awaiting the processing of his long-stay visa. During that 5 weeks, we spent hours each day together, mostly in the activities of long walks and working out at the gym. And also the common fun stuff of getting together for outings for meals and such.
First of all, Anthony is a very polite gentleman who treats others, particularly strangers, with admirable respect. He's a cool head, not a hot head at all.
He's an absolute pleasure to be around and spend time with.
People get confused about this because of his professional demeanor online. And I mean professional. And one aspect of that professionalism is that he gets to the heart of matters and stays right there and when he gets back the common, "aw, c'mon, man, let's schmooze a little and work this out, save face and all that..." he resists, and he resists hard because he knows exactly what is being sought.
At this point I have only skimmed Anthony's answer to Steve's challenge and subsequent posts, so I can't say for sure yet what my judgment is. But I can say that I have gone through tons of Anthony's stuff in the past (I looked at every study he cited in The Fat Loss Bible) and I have never found a single error, much less an intentional misleading.
Not one.
I am of the impression and expect to confirm that in my judgment, Steve's goose is cooked here and he should just take the L.
And hey, now that Anthony has revealed what he plans to do with the money, Steve has the ideal face-saving gesture available to him right there and we all witness a win-win-win.
¨ Because there were two acceptable responses, by Steve:
1. Take the L and pay up
2. Respond in an equally thorough and serious manner as to why he disagrees with Anthony's challenge response¨
I said the same thing to Wayne, but apparently he has a pathological condition that prevents him from addressing this simple fact.
He instead changes the subject for some other BS..
I think it's becoming increasingly clear (and I'm not even following closely) that "Wayne" is Steve's sock puppet.
I'm now using and am going to increase my influence on my two sites, and two Twitter accounts.
1. Should be easy enough to get Steve's haters to promote this.
2. Just need a good handful of his fans (maybe a few have honest integrity, a handful out of half-million?) to start agitating about this.
3. Goal would be to cost him a few million.
https://twitter.com/rnikoley/status/1772867225302774183
Again, by reading I know that a challenge has been paid, on finding a mistake in Turtles All The Way Down.
I like to help people accomplish their goals but again, I'm not going to read everything for them.
When you say you like to help people accomplish their goals, that evidently doesn't include the goal of seeking greater transparency as to the activities of the so-called "Vaccine Safety Research Foundation":
https://open.substack.com/pub/lagatapolitica/p/steve-kirsch-the-king-of-digital?r=uhw5g&utm_campaign=comment-list-share-cta&utm_medium=web&comments=true&commentId=52321225
''I'm not going to read everything for them."
I submit that you and Steve, probably others, have spent more time embroiled in what is now a controversy than had you, at the outset...
1. Wait a sec, this challenge response looks serious, let's dig in carefully because integrity is at stake
2. Made a determination to pay, dispute Anthony's work thoroughly, or ask honest, clarifying questions in the spirit of making a solid determination and executing
What you, collectively speaking, did instead was obviously to dismiss it out of hand as "impossible," because "cocksure" (why we do these challenges in the first place).
What's obvious to me, at even just a cursory glance, is that you have yet to thoroughly review Anthony's challenge and instead have done a bunch of hand-waving diversion and beside the point stuff.
Look, it's simple: Steve should say either "oops, you got me," and "now who's your person you want this money transferred to?"... OR issue a thorough rebuttal to Anthony's work that makes it clear and obvious that you reviewed it honestly.
I have my Occam's Razor-like suspicions as to why this has not been done and the case settled, once and for all.
So why isn't your boy Steve paying up after losing his own fluvoxamine challenge?
Thanks for taking the time to respond Wayne!
kirch*
kirch*
seems pretty clear to me that Wayne is just Kitch (maybe typing with the other hand) 😆
Glad to know all this. I think the FDA should start doing REAL drug investigations instead of allowing drug makers to approve them on their own. It's like medical students reading their own research papers/grants and grading them themselves.
That would be nice, but sadly the FDA is pretty much owned by industry. It serves Big Pharma, not the public.
I know and I was thinking that as I was writing the comment. It's sad we have such corrupt lettered agencies and governments.
The FDA gets busted and reorganizes (reinvents) itself and promises to do better quite often. Unfortunately, the agency just gets worse and worse, the public gets harmed & ripped off more and more, because the reorganizations are organized the foxes, not the roosters.
Yes, just like all the other lettered agencies. Romney's niece just got a new job, working for NBC (or Chiden's News Network). So we know the gov't does this too.
Never let up, Anthony! Killer memes too.
So... is Steve just stoopid? A grifter? A Big Pharma shill? All three??? 🤡🤡🤡
Probably all that and more...
I think we have to consider he may be ideologically captured. As in, the sort of God complex delusional guff that weak-minded people with power and wealth and lacking the wherewithal to avoid taking demonstrably dangerous experimental injections on command who are also in secret clubs, end up succumbing to. “The Urge to Save Humanity is Almost Always Only a False-Face for the Urge to Rule It” attributed to H L Mencken.
so true...love the quote!
Steve has vested interest in not admitting, a version of Upton Sinclair’s “ It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
he revolts me...no one that homely should have money
🤣🤣🤣
It's Disney money anyway.
The one time I spoke with Steve Kirsch, he immediately offended me with his arrogance. I really don't want to talk to him anymore.
On the one hand, I'm glad he's against the vaxx, but on the other, he's just pissing people off.
Mockery has a very important place in our society. Thank you for your contribution.
These memes are biting...as they should be!
lmao 🤣
rorflmao...
Canadian study was negative. For violent suicide - CI crosses 1 for fluvoxamine so not statistically significant. Thanks for study links.
when he started charging people a subscription to read his “weight loss plan” and then was spruking his crypto platform and investment tips i knew something was well up!
then when he started posting rambling rants like malone i knew he was not what he purported to be and i lost faith and respect in the man (if you can call him that)
I wonder what happens to these kinds of ppl that makes them do such evil stuff. Something happens during childhood plus they're natural psychopaths then they meet the wrong ppl and get the wrong mentor